Of American-English origin, the phrase to talk turkey (also to talk cold turkey) means: to speak frankly and without reserve, to talk hard facts, to get down to business.
However, originally, the phrase to talk turkey (also to say turkey) meant: to say to a person the things that they want to hear.
The phrase to talk turkey (also to say turkey) allegedly originated in the oft-repeated story of a white man and an Indian who both went hunting together, and killed a turkey and a buzzard. The white man proposed the following alternative: either that the Indian should take the buzzard and that he would take the turkey; or that he would take the turkey, and the Indian the buzzard 1. In response, the Indian remarked that the white man never talked, or said, turkey to him. (A crow 2—or, occasionally, an owl—was substituted for the buzzard in later versions of this story.)
1 The phrase heads I win (and) tails you lose, meaning I win whatever happens, describes this type of alternative.
2 Cf. origin of ‘to eat crow’ (to suffer humiliation).
The earliest occurrences of the phrase to talk turkey (also to say turkey) that I have found are as follows, in chronological order:
1-: From a letter to the Editor, by a person signing themself ‘Honestus’, published in The Phenix; Or, Windham Herald (Windham, Connecticut, USA) of Saturday 31st March 1792—the noun turkey is in italics in the original text:
’Tis well known that the same men who construe the independent air of an honest public character, into intolerable haughtiness, and a disposition to crush his inferiors, have also the audacity to say that a severe ague caused by a sudden cold, in another, was an incurable palsy; a third they tell us has slender abilities, and never had any opinion of his own, that a fourth and fifth get along by shaking hands, and talking turkey to every one.
2-: From The Albany Argus (Albany, New York, USA) of Friday 26th February 1819:
The numerous applicants for office, occasions [sic] much confusion in the distribution of these favors, and in order to offend none, the most ingenious devices are adopted to please all, with the hope of success. But where there are seven applications for one office and each expectant swearing most valiantly to his faithful devotion, “the powers that be,” are put to their trumps to make a choice: It is literally like the Yankee toss of a copper ‘heads I win, tales [sic] you lose.’ Such has [sic] been the shifts, promises and policy pursued—the twistings, turnings, and pledges, all amounting to nothing, that they remind me of an Indian and a Kentuckyman who went out a hunting together, agreeing to divide the spoil. They shot a turkey and a turkey buzzard. The Kentuckyman proposed the division as follows “I will take the turkey and you the turkey buzzard, or you may have the turkey buzzard and I the turkey.” Stop said his partner, “that is not fair, you have not said turkey for Indian once.” So it is with the offices and expectants—there are so few turkeys, and so many turkey buzzards, that there is no wonder that they quarrel about the distribution. Q.
3-: From an extract from Dr. Morse’s Report on Indian Affairs, published in the Christian Watchman (Boston, Massachusetts, USA) of Saturday 26th October 1822:
The Indians are shrewd observers, and quick discerners of character. They have a high sense of honour, justice and fair dealing, and great sensibility, when advantage is taken of their weakness and ignorance, to deprive them of their property, and in other ways, to trespass on their rights.*
* The following pleasant Anecdote is in point, and exactly illustrates my meaning.—A white man and an Indian agreed to hunt together, and to share equally the game they should take. At night it appeared, that they had only a turkey and a buzzard; the latter bird of no value.—Well, said the white man to the Indian, we are now to divide what we have taken, and if you please, I will take the turkey and you shall take the buzzard—or else you may take the buzzard, and I will take the turkey. Ah, replied the Indian, you no say turkey for poor Indian once.
4-: From Little Bit of Tid-Re-I (1824)—as quoted in the Oxford English Dictionary (online edition, March 2023):
So that, all things considered, I hope neither the Indian, whom the Yankey could not cheat in the division of their game (a turkey and a buzzard,)..will accuse me of not talking Turkey to them in this article.
5-: From Circular of Daniel Mayes, Esq. to his late constituents; the Citizens of Christian County, dated Frankfort, Friday 13th January 1826, published in the Kentucky Reporter (Lexington, Kentucky, USA) of Monday 27th March 1826:
To make a fair, full, and manly appeal to the people, in whom we confide, was all we could do, or, as faithful sentinels of their right to construe their constitution and administer in their own way their own government, was all we dared do. But by those who arrogate to themselves all the republicanism of the country, this appeal to the people was treated with scorn and derision. One gentleman likened the offer to the story of the Indian and white man, who, when hunting, had killed a turkey and a turkey-buzzard. The white man (he said) proposed, that the Indian should take the turkey-buzzard and he would take the turkey; or that he would take the turkey, and the Indian should take the turkey-buzzard. So he said it was with us—“we never said turkey to them once;” we always offered them the buzzard. Another of those monopolizers of all the democracy of the state said, (for it seems that loaves and fishes run ever through their heads,) that they asked for bread, and we gave them a stone; that they asked for fish, and we gave them a scorpion. And a grave old Senator, “A MIGHTY MAN FOR THE PEOPLE,” exclaimed, “BOH! BOH! BOH!” Every thing like a reference to the people, or a decision by the people, was treated by these dear lovers of the people, these democrats most democratical, with derision and scorn, whenever it was mentioned. Turkey-buzzard, stones, and scorpions, “danced through their imagination in all the mazes of metaphorical confusion.”
6-: From the account of a debate on the Tariff Bill which took place in the U.S. Senate on Saturday 10th May 1828, published in The Charleston Courier (Charleston, South Carolina, USA) of Tuesday 20th May 1828:
Mr. MACON was adverse to an increase of duty on Indigo. In 1790, Congress passed a bill imposing a duty of 25 cents per pound on Indigo, but by a subsequent act of 1816, instead of increasing, they reduced the duty to 15 cents.
His object was to shew the operation of the Government on the States in general. The country is now in a deplorable situation. Some gentlemen wish to protect the woollens, and to let the molasses escape. The gentleman from New-York illustrated very feelingly the interests of that State.—Some persons can see a straw in the eye of another, and yet cannot discover the beam in their own. The manner of dealing justice to the Southern States, reminded him of the dispute between the Indian and white hunters for the Turkey and crow. Said the white to the Indian, will you have the crow and I the turkey, or I the turkey and you the crow? Why dont [sic] you say turkey to me, said the Indian? Thus the New-England States would divide with the Southern. “Every man knows where the shoe pinches.”
7-: From the Commercial Advertiser (New York City, New York, USA) of Saturday 21st November 1829:
The Morning Herald says:—“In regard to foreign intelligence through domestic channels, we are in the habit of taking just enough to balance accounts for what we furnish.”
An Indian and a Yankee went a hunting together, agreeing to make an equal division of their game. They shot a turkey and an owl. The Yankee then said to the Indian,—“Will you take the owl and shall I take the turkey, or I the turkey and you the owl?” The Indian considered, like the Secretary of the Navy, and replied,—“You no talk turkey for me.” What news the Herald may furnish for others, we know not; but believe the weight of obligation is exceedingly trifling, upon any of our contemporaries. It assuredly furnishes us nothing. We thought, as we are fond of doing a little good when it falls in our way, that we would give this unfortunate and fatherless paper a lift, by noticing it. This is what we get in return for our kindness. But it is the way of the world. ‘Ingratitude, thou marble-hearted friend,’ &c.
8-: From the Carolina Observer (Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA) of Thursday 22nd April 1830:
From the Greensboro’ Patriot.
Mishster Newspaper.—I taught as my cougin Little Conrad had a converzation mid you, I would speke to you myselve upon de Greensboro peobles once more again aready, I tells you what I dosh know apout the Chity. Yesh I dosh know dat our letle place groas mighty fast again. Put ware him groes from I does not know. I does not lib very far from de Greensboar & does know a great teel upon de town. Me cougin sash tat de bolice wash come to de town and hash made cood lawsh again wonsh more aready. I dosh know tat tish maun wold not come upon the town if no pody ashk him, and dosh tink dat de laws is bery pad, some bery cood laws. I peen over upon the Philametalpha onsh mit my wagon too and horses too again aready, and I feds my hose in de streets of em chity and no pody saich turkey onsh, and I seen pig pellies, rupple shirts, burty cloas, smoke bipes, and glistering valking sticks, and I dosh tink how tey ish bery cleber, but, Mishter Brinter I tinks dad de heads of de Greensboar beoples has not so much in tem as even de Fayette beobles heads, for my son Haunce wash dar onsh more ash a couple times aready, and he feds hims horses in de town, and no pody says turkey to eim once again, put puilds for de waggons a burty fine house an waggon yards, for de Tucheomans again to stay all night in, and charge him noting de morning—now de Mr. bolice wash invited here again by some chentleman like himself from de Rawley ough who vent lasht winter to see de Mr. bolice in te Rawley and den he laught onpon himself he would spent some time at te Mr. General Assembly, now I does tink if we dos send to de legislator men who dosh not now petter a dish I tink we has patter keep hims home one more a kouple times, until him coes to school to de lawrining one more again, what you tink mishter newspaper brinter.
PILLY HARSPARGER.
9-: From the Phenix Alexandria Gazette (Alexandria, Virginia, USA) of Wednesday 29th December 1830:
The West has great cause of complaint, and will not unite heart and hand with the low country, until a fair participation in the advantages of the Government is obtained. A writer in a valley paper tells a homely story, apropos to the subject:
“The governor and our James river brethren (says he) remind me of the story of two hunters—one a white man and the other an Indian—in the division of their game. Says the white man to the Indian, ‘you take the buzzard and I’ll take the turkey; or I’ll take the turkey and give you the buzzard.’ We hope we shall not be considered unreasonable, if, with the Indian, we reply, ‘Humph! you never say turkey to me once!!’”
10-: From The Frankfort Argus (Frankfort, Kentucky, USA) of Wednesday 23rd March 1831:
Under what pretext will the Governor endeavor to screen himself from public indignation? The suggestion that the representatives of Fayette told him, that the people of the county would prefer True to Bullock, is too flimsey to answer his purpose, even if true. If the citizens of Barren or Harrison were in a similar situation, would he listen to any suggestion of the kind from their representatives, in favor of a political opponent and against a political friend? We suppose not. He would be like the white man, who, in dividing the Turkey and the Buzzard with the Indian, never once said “Turkey” to the poor Indian.
11-: From Speech of Col. Cunningham of Pike County, Candidate for Brigadier General Delivered before the Citizens of Wilkinson County on Saturday 25th Feb., published in the Southern Planter (Woodville, Mississippi, USA) of Saturday 10th March 1832:
Fellow Citizens and Soldiers, let me tell you how I was sarved durin’ the last war.—One mornin’ I had business with my Gineral, and went into his tent, and his boy was brileing beef on the coals—my teeth fairly watered for some, and he never said Turkey once.—Fellow Soldiers, if I was your Gineral, I would’nt sarve you so.—No, I would always divide with a soldier.
12-: From the transcript of a speech that John Holmes (1773-1843), Senator from Maine, delivered in the U.S. Senate in April 1832, published in The United States Telegraph (Washington, District of Columbia, USA) of Monday 11th June 1832:
—In this speech, John Holmes applied the story of the two hunters to the British Foreign Secretary George Hamilton-Gordon (1784-1860), 4th Earl of Aberdeen, and to the U.S. Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Louis McLane (1786-1857):
Aberdeen had seen that Mr. McLane was to accomplish some arrangement, no matter what, and that he had him in his power. Now, said he, “Mr. McLane, I’ll make you a fair offer—I’ll have the turkey, and you shall have the crow, or you shall have the crow, and I’ll the turkey.” Now, as this sounded somewhat reciprocal, and as something must be done, he accepted the proposition. But when he began to think further—now, said he to himself, “I have at last got nothing but the crow, and the Englishman has the turkey;” then he begins to make his complaints: “May it please your Lordship, you did not say turkey to me at all.” Aberdeen pats him on the shoulder: “Never mind, never mind, you are an honest fellow—a very honest fellow.” By this he was pacified, wiped his eyes, and came right home, and received his reward.
13-: From The Marriage of Mister John Beedle, attributed to Capt. M’Clintock (i.e., the U.S. author John Neal (1793-1876)?), published in the Daily Evening Advertiser (Portland, Maine, USA) of Saturday 14th March 1835:
Patty Bean was not the first, that I run against by a long shot. I never lost any thing for want of asking; and I was plaguy apt to begin to talk turkey, always when I got sociable, if it was only out of politeness.
14-: From Left Handed Notice, by J. Holcomb, blacksmith, dated Brandon, Saturday 24th September 1836, published in the Vermont Telegraph (Brandon, Vermont, USA) of Wednesday 28th September 1836:
WHEN merchants advertise goods for sale, or mechanics notify the public of their intention of carrying on business, they generally give people to understand that they shall trade very low, and perhaps go a “peg lower” than their neighbors. Now, as I am left handed, I shall go the other way, considering the rise in stock, and most kinds of produce, I feel it my duty to go a “shade higher” than formerly, on many articles of work, and think it fair play to notify my customers accordingly. To shoe a horse round with new, heavy shoes, then wait a year and take one bushel of corn to cancel the charge, don’t “talk turkey” to me. 2240 lbs. of hay costs about twice the amount now that it did five or six years ago, and many other articles bear a price nearly or quite in that proportion.
15[?]-: From the Farmers’ Cabinet (Amherst, New Hampshire, USA) of Friday 14th October 1836—the phrase talk turkey is in italics in the original text:
As Thanksgiving Day is appointed, we must begin in season to talk turkey to our agricultural friends—we hope they will not forget the goblins and goslins [sic] for the printer. Dead or alive, we must have some.
16-: From one of the unconnected paragraphs making up the column Summary, published in The Reflector, and Schenectada Democrat (Schenectady, New York, USA) of Friday 2nd December 1836:
A man in Michigan has advertised for one hundred turkies, all for thanksgiving dinner. We should think he would talk turkey, as the Yankees say, after such a gormandization.
17-: From The Evening Post (New York City, New York, USA) of Saturday 20th May 1837:
There is a style of discourse which in common parlance is sometimes designated by the expressive, though not classical, phrase, “talking Turkey.” It is when the individual swells, looks big, swaggers horribly,
——stares tremendous with a threatening eye,
Like some fierce tyrant in old tapestry,
and like the bird of the farm yard, whose dialect he is said to adopt, threatens more things than he has courage to execute. The Commercial of Thursday evening undertook to “talk Turkey” to the postmaster of this city, in the following strain:
“We trust the merchants here, as they have done in Boston, will peaceably compel the postmaster to cease his attempts to exact specie, so long as the government does not pay it.”
18-: From The Evening Post (New York City, New York, USA) of Friday 26th May 1837:
Talking Turkey.—The Oneida Democrat reprehends us for using the phrase “talking Turkey,” in a wrong sense. We supposed it signified to swagger; but the Oneida print gives another definition, and corroborates it with a story. It is likely we were in the wrong.
“Talking turkey,” “as we understand it,” means to talk to a man as he wants to be talked to, and the phrase is thus derived. An Indian and a white man went a shooting in partnership, and a wild turkey and a crow were all the results of the day’s toil. The white man, in the usual style of making a bargain with the Indian, proposed a division of the spoils in this way: “Now Wampum, you may have your choice: you take the crow and I’ll take the turkey; or, if you’d rather, I’ll take the turkey and you take the crow.” Wampum reflected a moment on the generous alternative thus offered, and replied—“Ugh! you no talk turkey to me a bit.”
We hope this matter will not be allowed to rest by the press, till the very certainty of the matter is ascertained.
19-: From the Boston Morning Post (Boston, Massachusetts, USA) of Monday 5th June 1837:
“Talking Turkey.”—This phrase, of recent coinage, is applied by the New York Evening Post to the classes of men who are in the habit of swelling, and boasting, and bragging and threatening. When the stump orators, down in Battle Square, therefore, tell of the rapid increase of their numbers, and assert their readiness to march to the assistance of their brethren, the Boston nullifiers, to batter down the Post Office and Custom House, and then march to Washington to knock the President’s eyes out, they “talk turkey.”—Salem Advertiser.
20-: From one of the toasts that were drunk at a dinner held at Marion, South Carolina, to celebrate the anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence in 1776—published in The Charleston Mercury (Charleston, South Carolina, USA) of Friday 21st July 1837:
The Whigs of New-York.—untimed and hasty in their nomination of Daniel Webster for the Presidency, like the white man and Indian, they never say turkey to the South once.
21-: From the Daily Commercial Advertiser (Buffalo, New York, USA) of Saturday 26th August 1837, reprinted from the Cortland Republican & Eagle—here, the meaning of the phrase to talk turkey is obscure:
The Tory papers are beginning to ‘talk turkey.’ What is the matter. They begin to talk about a ‘divorce between the government and the banks.’ Who joined them in ‘wedlock?’ Who was the father of ‘the Safety Fund System?’
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